@jim-hedman Jim, thank you very much for this detailed response. Some very useful info here. I will spend some time with the dulcimer and get back to you when I have gathered the appropriate information.
here is a better one.... the headstock would be pointing down...
Although there is no excuse for poor workmanship, dulcimers are unique among string instruments in that they have two popular fretting setups. Old time traditional dulcimers are fretted in Just intonation. This setup is ideal for 155 tuning like Daa but won't play in tune in ddaD. Equal tempered setups are like guitars etc. And will play in 158 like ddaD and don't sound as well in 155. Before you toss your dulcimer be sure you know which setup you have... Robert
I've settled on large, straight-edged, thinish triangle picks as my favorites for dulcimer. I also drill a hole in the center to improve the grip. I'm mostly a strum and noter player and like the slapping sound a thin pick makes on the strings. This works fine when playing with others.
But most my playing is alone and for myself. So usually I use the side of my thumb to brush the strings fairly lightly. A sweet and mellow sound. It isn't hard to brush in both directrions, so all the interesting rhythms are possible.
And I always know where my thumb is. Not always true with picks!
@noah-coy-barfield , I should have pointed out that we have a whole group here devoted to the Baritone dulcimer . You might consider joining and checking out the conversations there.
they fret less ..... but with wood burned markers on the side of the neck. fretted Chromatically like a guitar
My baritone isn't a McSpadden, but I just wanted to mention that baritones (with a quality build, like McSpadden and Folkcraft) have a beautiful voice. I really enjoy playing my songs with the baritone to give a while new sound. I'm betting you'd love a McSpadden baritone.
Thanks, Dusty! The video clip really helped!
By the way, I moved this discussion to the Forum on Specific Luthiers so that it would be more easily located later on instead of getting lost in the General Music category.
@noah-coy-barfield, I had a McSpadden baritone for about a year that I had to sell when I was making another dulcimer purchase that I couldn't really afford. It was a wonderful instrument, with a strong, deep voice. Here is the video I posted when I was obliged to sell it: . Once I start talking a bunch you can stop watching, but I play a fingerpicking tune and two flatpicking tunes, so you can hear what it sounds like.
One nice thing about McSpaddens is that they keep their value pretty well. And they are always well made (unless you get one made from a kit, and then you never know!).
Hi all,
I'm relatively new to playing the dulcimer. I currently have a couple of standard length McSpadden dulcimers--one from 2013 and one from 1973. I'm thinking about getting a baritone or bass dulcimer at some point in order to sing along with (I have a deep voice).
Does anyone have any experience with McSpadden's baritone dulcimers? If so, was it a positive or negative experience?
Thanks!
Noah
Beautiful work! Did you fret them more like a dulcimer or like a guitar?
Don't limit yourselves with only "store bought" picks. I've had some good success making picks from plastic lids from microwavable bowl type meals and the plastic packaging from various other products.
I know you have, but I will still ask the question. Have you ever learned a new song and discovered some real happiness, and joy? I did.
About two week ago I began learning two new songs, both of which I should have learned years prior. I don't really know why not.
I recently purchased a new songbook from Linda W Collins, "Beyond the Basics: A Songbook."
While going over the songbook I discovered these two songs, listened to them on you tube, and began learning the songs. Okay! Okay! Tell us the two songs!
First: Lisa Jane; Second: Goin'Down to Cairo. Then I discovered both could be played as one song. So I learned the music and words, confidently enough to play out, Sat for a senior church group and this morning at an Assisted Living Home.
I am hear to tell you, this joint adventure in song went over fantastic. I received the best response from this song, better than any other. Lots of clapping and smiling. "That's what I am talking about", kind of stuff. Loads of fun.
So I would say, to anyone who plays out, if you haven't already, add this one (or two), to your reportoire. Even though it's not a Gospel song, its a "clean" song, and the folks will love it. And you will too.
I managed to get to a local music shop. I picked up 17 different picks. None of them are fancy ones, but I got a variety of weights. I do seem to like the heavier picks a lot better. I'll probably keep adding to the collection and figure out which ones are my favorites.
Jill, good luck in your search for a Jean Ritchie model Blue Lion. I presently own two Blue Lion dulcimers, a Jean Ritchie model and an Acoustic Jam Baritone model, both were customized to have a single melody string and only three strings total. I had to wait several months until my name came up on the build list, but they are exceptional instruments and well-worth the wait. Blue Lion dulcimers are greatly valued by their owners and are seldom available as used instruments. If you find one available used, don't hesitate in purchasing it. It won't be for sale for long.
Bridge, I was in a similar fix with my Carstanjen courting dulcimer. An invaluable tool for doping out the intonation problems was this fret position calculator: http://www.liutaiomottola.com/formulae/fret.htm#mozTocId169477. There are a number of calculators on that web page. The one you want is titled "Calculating Fret Spacing for All Frets".
The calculator is set up for a chromatic fret board so the fret numbers are actually semi-tones and you'll have to adjust to accommodate the diatonic scaling of your fret board (e.g. the first fret is 2 semi-tones, the second is 4 semi-tones, the third is 5 semi-tones etc.). The equivalents for the first octave are as follows: 1~2, 2~4, 3~5, 4~7, 5~9, 6~10, and 7~12.
The StewMac web site has a similar fret position calculator ( http://www.stewmac.com/FretCalculator) that additionally provides fret to fret measurements. With this calculator you can specify "dulcimer" as a parameter input and doing so will restrict the output to the diatonic scale of your instrument - well, except it includes the 6+ fret which it labels fret #7 and calls the octave fret #8. An advantage of this calculator is that it is easy to cut and paste your data output into a spreadsheet or print out.
For the "scale length" (i.e. VSL) measure the distance from the zero-fret to the seventh fret and multiply by two, which will give you the uncompensated VSL for the instrument. Adjusting the bridge position by finding a true octave at the seventh fret gives you a compensated VSL that factors in the effect of the string tension increase caused by the act of depressing the string to the fret. A compensated VSL will be slightly larger than an uncompensated VSL and it is the latter that we want to work with - at least for now.
Once you've entered the VSL measure the distance from the nut (or zero-fret) to each of the seven frets and compare them with the calculated values and look for discrepancies (i.e. errors). The seventh fret VSL will of course be spot on automatically because that measure was the parameter used to determine our scale length input. What we want to look for is a pattern in the errors for frets 1 through 6. For example, do all errors in frets 1 to 6 come up short? I suspect they would if frets 1 to 6 play flat as you described.
Where we go from here is dependent upon the error findings and to cover all possible outcomes and remedies would make this reply overly long (if it is not already). So if I've tweaked your interest, provide feedback on what you find and I'll try to dope out a solution - if there is one.
If you use Excel or another spreadsheet program, that would be a good vehicle for keeping your notes and for doing some later data manipulation, hopefully leading to a solution of the intonation issue(s).
Could it had had the frets set by ear, rather than tuner -- say Just Intonated? I've seen several "tulip" dulcimers from that era. I think Wilfred in Germany has one, and there's one pictured in one of the early books -- Michael Murphy's Dulcimer Book perhaps or the early edition of the Mel Bay Learn To Play (I don't have them handy)
This is cool.
I did however, move this thread to the "Instruments- luthiers/instruments Forum because it's about a specific maker and the issues effecting the instrument's playability. 
what do they call that body style Rob ? is it a flying V ?
I just pulled it out and experimented. I have been positioning the bridge so that when you play the octave fret the note sounded is one octave higher using a digital tuner (and my ear). When I have that satisfied and play notes up the fret board, they are flat until I reach the octave fret I used to position the bridge. It would seem that the frets are not the proper distance from the zero fret, but I'm finding that hard to believe give the general quality of the instrument. The strings are all properly seated and are vibrating between the zero fret and the fret serving as the bridge.
I wondered if string gauge and tension might have an effect, but I don't think so. The bass string is a .023, and it acts the same as the unwound strings. The action is properly set and not so high as to affect the note sounded (and it would also be sharp, not flat). At the first fret, I have to bend the string about 1/8" to bring it up to the proper pitch. I've recently read an online article about different tuning "modes" and some of it went over my head. The writer was talking about some notes being flat or sharp when "in tune." Couldn't quite wrap my head around that one, but it seemed authoritative! ;-)
From what I can tel from the photos, the first piece of metal after the peg head is a Zero fret. The next is one and so on. Measure the distance from the middle of the zero fret to the middle of the seventh fret, double it and you have the place where the bridge (in this case another fret) should be. It is difficult to see, but do the strings pass along the slots in the tail piece? It was also constructed before the 6 1/2 fret became popular, so I would place it nearer to 1963 than, say, 1975.
Ken
"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."
Interesting instrument. I don't know either if it's a tulip or lyre, but my money's on tulip. I know where Volga is, but don't know anyone who lives there. In fact, it's not far from here in Barbour County. I have an hourglass made in the county seat of Barbour Co. and it's 4 independent strings as well. Have you started with the bridge set the same distance from the 7th fret as from the nut to the 7th and see how close the intonation is.
This might be better posted in another forum, but this topic line fits it perfectly. These are photos of a West Virginia 4-equidistant-string dulcimer I recently bought in Cleveland, OH for $75 while visiting my son. I'm not sure if it is supposed to represent a lyre of a tulip! I cleaned it up and put some standard strings on it. Sounds nice, and "shimmering" seems to fit it. The label inside it reads as follows:
No. #33
Russell W. McCarty
Volga, W. Va.
I've done some light investigation on the web, and I believe I have located some members of Mr. McCarty's family, but I have not yet tried to contact them.
Based upon my limited experience, this seems to be a pretty unusual instrument. I don't know how old it is, but it must have been constructed after 1963 and before people started printing labels on computers since the address contains a zip code and the label was done on a typewriter.
Since restringing the instrument, I have not been able to get it to play properly. The bridge is adjustable fore and aft, and I can get it to sound the right notes at the octave or middle fret, but it is as if the frets are not spaced properly when you play up and down the fretboard. As I go up the fretboard, the notes are flat until I hit the octave fret. I do NOT believe the instrument is improperly constructed, but I have yet to figure out why it seems to be so far off. I haven't really spent much time on it, and I might even be using the wrong fret for positioning the bridge if it doesn't have half frets. There are some very small pin holes that seem to hint at where the bridge should be placed; they are obviously there for that reason.
Anyway, that's a project I am working on.
I've posted below a link to some photos at the Google Photo site. I've made them accessible to all, but I may remove that link if I find that it compromises my my security there. First time I have done this...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YtZR1fFgw4fSkJ9R6
Essentially through dumb luck and what came up for sale on the local CL, I ended up with a pristine McSpadden M12W that had been in a case in a closet for 27 years. The intonation is dead on up the frets and from string to string. I don't really know why because there's no sign of any extra compensation tweaks. It's textbook. I returned a dulcimer made by someone you would all know that just was not right. I had bought it used from Guitar Center with the 45-day return option, so it wasn't a case where the original luthier could set things right, perhaps with a different instrument. It's a current model that sells for about $300 with soft case, and it just was not right. Why the McSpadden is so spot on, I just don't know, but I had read that their build quality is extremely consistent from instrument to instrument. I'm on a budget, and I feel very fortunate that this M12W fell into my lap at a good price. It's a pleasure to play.
Somebody leads. Different people can lead different songs if you like, but figure it out before the gig. There's nothing worse than a bunch of musicians looking at each other like deer in the headlights, waiting for somebody, anybody to count them in. Do not ask me how I know this! I got so fed up with one group that I made buttons saying:
I'M THE ONE WHO CAN COUNT TO 4
and handed one out before every gig. The leader must be fearless, ready to jump in and count the beats and name the chords like Dusty says. "Back to the A part, three, four, here we go..." Leading a group is a skill that takes practice, like any other skill. Following a leader is also a skill to practice. This could be a goal for club meetings.
One option is to get a bass player... or a drummer (one drummer)... to keep the tempo. You need an instrument with a sound that stands out from the rest of the group so everyone can hear it. A banjo (or a dulci-banjo) might do the trick. If all else fails, sit someone down in the middle of the group with a 5-gallon plastic bucket and pound the beat. Then the problem is to find the right bass/drum/banjo player. I've been stuck with bassists who can't keep a steady rhythm and bassists who play the wrong rhythm (this is a waltz, you idiot). If the bass has the wrong tempo there's nothing anyone else can do to save the tune because in a group with 3 dulcimers and one bass, the bass wins.
Once you get more than 6 MD players, as Bill describes, I think you've reached the point where somebody has to conduct. If one side is getting ahead of the other, that means they can't all hear each other. Which means they need a visual indication -- tapping foot, waving hand. I think pulling out a conductor's baton would be a funny bit of shtick for the audience.
I have played gigs where we had to watch each others' strumming hands because nobody could hear the beat. That doesn't work so well for beginners who still need to look at their fretboards, and it's hard to manage if people are using tab. At least be sure you're sitting close together and in a semi-circle so you can all see each other.
Just an added note regarding short VSL instruments. In general, intonation is harder to get spot on as you shorten the string length because anything that's "off" about the instrument (perhaps the accuracy of fret positions) represents a large percentage of the whole and gets magnified. For example, it's much easier to have perfect intonation on a baritone ukulele than it is on a soprano uke. You can definitely get intonation spot on if you are willing to do what needs to be done. On some saddles (at the bridge) you will see them shaped so that each string has a slightly different VSL. On electric guitars, there are small sliding string carriers that can be minutely adjusted. Often, you can just angle the bridge/saddle. On my McSpadden M12-W, the bridge is basically perpendicular to the strings. On the McSpadden 26" VSL, the bridge is at a distinct angle on the 4FH26WR pictured at their website. See pic below.
I'm new to dulcimers, but I have quite a bit of experience with short-scale guitars and alternate tunings. On guitars, when you go to a shorter scale, you end up increasing the string gauge to maintain proper intonation. When you go down in VSL, less string tension is required to maintain the same pitch. At some point, the string becomes floppy, sounds bad, and doesn't intonate well. If you keep the same VSL and go up in pitch, your string tension obviously goes up. If you want to go up in pitch and maintain the same string tension, you need to go to a lower string gauge. Just some examples.
Go to this string tension calculator provided by D'Addario and experiment. You can select a standard setup and then vary one or more factors and see the calculated results.
D'Addario http://stringtensionpro.com
Changing strings is fine, Dusty, but having them snap is very, very dangerous. I have managed to convince my wife that this is so and she loves me so much that she would rather I bought another dulcimer than risk getting hurt.
This works for me and I am sticking with it.
I actually like all the suggestions here. I've found in jams that it's important to have a clear leader for each tune. That person counts out the first measure and determines the tempo. Everyone else should follow that person. It also helps if that person or a surrogate taps their feet loudly and plays the role of conductor.
If there is a real disconnect, it may be that someone has to take a more active approach. In my monthly dulcimer group, I will sometimes start counting beats out loud and giving cues to where we are: "2-3-4- third line" or "3-4 A chord" or whatever to get people in sync.
And sometimes a private conversation may be necessary. I have a tendency to speed up as I play. One person in my local group always plays too fast. But one day I spoke with her privately, explaining that we both had the same bad tendency and asking for her help in slowing down and following the tempo of the rest of the group. That conversation made her a better player with out my having to insult her in any way.
But as a general rule, every orchestra needs a conductor. Whether that's the rhythm guitar as Randy suggests, someone taping their foot, or another leader of some sort.
@jp, I regularly use a .014 on my melody string and almost always tune to d. I've never had a string break on my dulcimer when I was tuning it. But perhaps on longer VSLs .012 or even lighter would work better. I say go for it and see what happens, perhaps putting on some goggles just in case. 
Jeepers, creepers, you gotta protect your peepers!
@nigelbleddfa, it is surely the case that the more you change a string's tuning the more likely the string is to snap, but so what? It's a good idea to change strings every 3-6 months anyway, so I don't see what the big deal is. A string costs a buck. A dulcimer costs a lot more than that. There are better reasons to justify a new dulcimer.
Maybe I'm spoiled. My thoughtful wife 
got me a $100 gift card to Just Strings for my last birthday. I was able to buy several years worth of strings with that.
My first dulcimer was tuned DAD. I told my wife that it was dangerous to keep changing the tuning to DAA and over a period of time strings would snap and replacements would be needed. She accepted this and I bought a second dulcimer which is permanently tuned DAA.
Do you think she will accept the "strings snapping" argument as a good reason for buying a third ? I quite fancy a nice solid walnut one.
